121630-is-renown-farming-an-exploit
Content ---- ---- ---- in D4 u be able to buy a lot of stuff u can sell or salvage, even now u able to buy farm bags and gear for salvage. | |} ---- yes this will hurt the economy. Be able to buy AMP points and Ability points (i think) come drop 4. Also, I think if you can /follow and go AFK, at the best it's a cheesy mechanic. | |} ---- ---- ---- It simply requires you to BE in a group. One could say that the R12 rep grinding was fine and dandy too, but they patched that within a couple days. Clearly not working as intended. | |} ---- that was an exploit messing with how a mob respawns.... not even comparable | |} ---- you will be able to buy single use amp points. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- The 5-man areas gave no renown. How's it any different if it's a smaller group farming as opposed to the 40man? At least with the 40man you have less chance of a small set of people monopolizing an area that really doesn't have any use outside of just for farming. My only problem with farming the NW area was it being a quest area, but considering the group that was running I'd imagine they would have moved on if they were disrupting other people's gameplay. What damage will be done to the economy? Not a lot of the things purchased with renown are tradeable, right(other than the dye bags)? If the people are getting the fluff/cosmetic stuff just for themselves, and this is paid with renown so they're not gaming/exploiting the economy to make plat(either to buy the fluff, or making plat off of selling the fluff), how are they damaging the economy? | |} ---- Don't matter if it's soulbound..if it was soulbound, couldn't be salvaged or sold then that's a different matter :) I think the point here anyway is if 40 people do group and go and kill loads of stuff that's not exploiting. One person killing everything and 39 on follow AFK is...because you aren't controlling the character. That's why people have been sanctioned previously for automating gameplay. | |} ---- Its VERY comparable. You could get hundreds of thousands of reknown that way too. All while doing the same amount of work. | |} ---- So using the /follow command is an exploit? The people worried about this are most likely the ones who want to control the economy. I'm sure i wont mind if those eldan signs and rune fragments are gonna be a lot cheaper because people flood the market with them. God forbid you could reroll a runeslot for only 1p right?... | |} ---- it's all assumptions until Carbine states something official about this. But I personally can see this as an exploit yes. | |} ---- ---- ---- I guess it is afk-follow trains like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2I9nbxXwzY rather than normal grouping that is referred to... | |} ---- Not the follow command, the fact you are not there and are "automating" a game mechanic. If you are sitting there and watching and responding to chat etc then it's not automating a game mechanic. That's pretty black and white. What's not black and white is if gathering up 40 people and farming stuff to get massive renown gains is intended or not and that is for Carbine to clarify as Olivar said and I agree with him it would be considered an exploit in my view because I don't think CRB envisaged people doing this for massive gains. Otherwise you'd get massive renown from GA/DS etc etc as negoleg has also pointed out. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- From what I noticed, I was getting 22, 61, 9?, and 13?, from the mobs. The 13? was when we killed that elite commander mob, and to guess for the rest: 22 from those little mobs in the groups of 3, 61 from the mobs in groups of 2, and 9? from the single patting mob/lieutenant. | |} ---- This is how mobs are classified in CB daily area(Megatech) Superior- Scarhide Tank, this gave me and my group 100+ renown (give and take depending on guild buff and flasks) (34,3k HP) Minion - Scarhide Deadshot/Scalper (23,1/23,5k HP) Challenger - Scarhide Butcher (23,1k HP) | |} ---- ---- its bugged and: | |} ---- Fair point lol. | |} ---- I think most of the people that were doing it were doing it for amps/ability points. I say its questionable but don't think its a bannable offense. If you're actually at your keyboard and doing stuff I think its fine BUT if you're just afk in the train then I take that is an actually offense. Anyway just my 2 cent | |} ---- :ph34r: What if I had one of my kids behind the wheel(so to speek) :lol: | |} ---- ---- As long as someone is playing your toon then its fine. | |} ---- I think the problem is that it's relatively easy to not "look" AFK. I think the solution might be distribution based, but that's going to come with a wealth of its own problems and a burden for legit players collectively working for renown. Whether that's reducing what you can get outside of instanced content or rewarding you based on your contribution, it's going to annoy us. Not that it's not necessary, it's just why we can't have nice things. :angry: | |} ---- ---- The people farming renown can just kick the freeloaders out of the group if they want. Can't do that in a bg. /thread | |} ---- Reward ppl for going afk and let 1 guy do it all? Atm im farming renown and typing this post at the same time, with 1 screen, do i deserve a reward for not playing ? Can i join a bg and go afk while still earning prestige? | |} ---- People in charge of the renown train can get rid of the AFK'ers, or they don't mind them as there's gonna be plenty of people doing the killing, and only so many can kill at one time. They've accepted that there's going to be people that won't/can't contribute, and they're able to deal with them as they see fit. People in a BG can't. | |} ---- This is the question that I've yet to see answered. As if any of those actually cost anything significant. You'd maybe have an argument if the purple ones were on the vendor, but its only blue and lower. There were enough people in the train/watching the train that people zoning into Northern Wastes without being in the raid group had a new instance, so questing really wasn't disrupted at all. | |} ---- Oh yea, forgot about instances :P | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I never researched or did the exploit on my medic, so I'm not sure what you had to do to make it work, but it definitely wasn't something that outright affected every medic like the WB bug, you had to intentionally abuse it so it wasn't working as designed via specific steps. Hence the exploit. This is players just grouping up and killing things, the system is working as designed and implemented with no trickery. Is it healthy for the game/a responsible thing to do? Nope, and CS will shut it down. But I'll bet my bottom $ that nobody is going to be punished. It brings to mind when engies figured out they could use T8 OV to skip one of kuralaks main mechanics, and everyone freaked out saying it was an exploit, but later TT confirmed it was not. Because it worked as designed, but was used differently than expected. | |} ---- Flooded with what? Cheap fragments, that can now be purchased for miniscule amounts of renown? Mats that were already cheap thanks to housing plot farming? Eldan signs and purple fragments are incredibly rare drops, let alone the specific ones that sell well, even with hundreds of salvages you won't see a marked increase in their supply. And if you do, it is only going to be met with an equal increase in demand as people are about to be swimming in available slots and will want to fill them with eldan rune sets. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Clearly Carbine didn't think that the housing exploit was a big deal, so why should you or I? All they did was temp ban some people and take away the unlaundered platinum. | |} ---- i love how u always chose to ignore that u are able to buy ability / amp points from the EG vendor since launch. | |} ---- ---- ---- assuming you want to avoid gear upgrades, other LAS slots, or anything else on the EG vendor but hey some people do love running dailies over and over again to cap EG etc, and some people like PvP, which gives almost no EG but its w/e dude | |} ---- ---- ---- Are you really trying to compare the garden exploit to renown farming? lol | |} ---- I dont think this is the case and I think you are really seeing ghosts here. I believe he is genuinely seeing an issue. We will have to wait until D4 has been on Live for 2-4 weeks before we can detmine it as far as I can see. | |} ---- If this video are what you guys are talking about ... I could entirely understand why there would be afk .. there is barely any mobs and they die so fast lol Its like you are farming The Pit on World of Wacraft Warlord of Draenor and just follow everyone to pick the crystal and call me an exploiter .... how many hours did i spend doing this only to buy some goodies lol ... Tough actually i was one of the tank so i couldnt really AFK lol Im new to wildstar but thats the kind of thing any game developper would possibly see has an exploit or it was intended to be a farm spot :/ | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Made me lol :D | |} ---- Man I never see myself in anyone else's screenshots, sometimes I wonder if I even exist. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- you don't, your just a figment of someone else's imagination | |} ---- ---- So those ohmna kills really were 19/19 T__________T | |} ---- So by your logic, if players can get more money outside of GA/DS than they do inside, then that's an exploit too? Good to know. At the end of the day, the claim that killing mobs in NW 40m is broken, in comparison to GA/DS is complete and utter nonsense. Because there are far more mobs outside of raids. Ones that respawn at a much higher rate than any raid mob. If someone is mad that they didn't think of it, and irked that they were getting reknown the hard way, then they should just say "that". Not project and call "people merely grouping for a new reason" something slanderous like "exploiters". | |} ---- ---- ---- Completely ignoring that the basis of your argument stems from "I don't like it!" where's your actual proof that this is a "broken mechanic", and those who are doing this are exploiters? I'll wait. Given the fact that Carbine has known of this for about a week now, and have been known to very quickly hotfix what they consider to be issues in the past, it must not be an issue. And that's not even mentioning how quickly they've come down on actual exploiters. Zybak and all the people who used the Garden Fabkit exploit are proof of how little Carbine tolerates exploiters. | |} ---- ---- Yea, I really wish they'd give us renown for pvp :( Didn't it give renown at launch? | |} ---- Took them a while to stop the last one too didn't it. They wont just hotfix something if they don't consider it to be absolutely critical. This is obviously not that critical as it's not costing money on a huge scale etc etc. Why wouldn't you get renown from doing group PvP though, don't really make sense? Zybak got banned for exactly what was said previously in this post - if you just do a /follow and go make a coffee etc that's exploiting, no doubts about it. I base my argument on the fact that when people were doing this for R12 rep that got fixed, when people were farming mobs and killing 1 for loot and not the 2 adds to make a reset happen it got hotfixed. It appears to be unintended the amount of gains you achieve from doing this. That doesn't mean this one is a banning offence, unless you are afking while doing it...just like R12 and the mob resetting, it will just get fixed but is most probably a bug that people are taking advantage of (does that make you happier me phrasing it that way?) | |} ---- Not true anymore, veteran shiphands reward renown even if you are in them solo. That was exploiting a quirk in mob pack respawn behavior. What is the renown train exploiting? | |} ---- Scaling of renown is incorrect and therefore open to abuse just like the respawn behaviours were. If 40 man raids on zones are intentional and the expected behaviour then great..or more like boring and grindy but it can't be that hard for someone to respond and say this wont be changing or yea this isn't what was intended. I guess they don't want to make everyone rush to do it or will just leave it as is and it will be the way to get renown! Do you not think a zone for such would be created with loads of 20+ man mobs? Like a zone of raid trash and maybe the odd boss scattered about or something? This would then actually require the raid to participate rather than the possibility 39 people watch 1 kill single person mob packs! | |} ---- How is the scaling incorrect?(not snide, really wondering) | |} ---- ---- Basically because these mobs are for 1 person to kill and are still rewarding a chunk of renown so either they need dropping or Adventures Dungeons etc need realigning upwards so it's not so far apart. The effort/reward is totally out of whack! | |} ---- ---- If "the last one" you're referring to is the garden fabtkit, then "no". That was within a few hours of discovery. Same with the more recent Auction House exploit, where they disabled Auction Houses until the issue was fixed. And because the issue with R12 involved deliberately messing with how specific mobs spawn, this isn't even remotely comparable. Since all the people in Northern Wastes are doing is running around farming whatever mobs they see, as they regularly respawn. The only "special" thing is that they're in a large group. | |} ---- ---- Except a 5-man group would not be able to clear mobs quite as fast as the renown train. Further, all 5 would need to be actively participating to get near the returns, compared to the 40-man where most can afk/semi-afk. I don't think it goes to the level of exploit, but I don't think this was the intended route for renown acquisition. | |} ---- ---- ---- The reknown train though, has to run a large route "because" of the respawn rate. So they're not even speeding things up. | |} ---- I don't disagree with this, and I'm certainly not going to participate since I don't really see the point. But lots of people are throwing around the word exploit and I feel like it is just diminishing the power of that label to put it on the renown train. I've found that the number of people in the train triggers a new instance to spawn, so you don't actually see the train unless you are in the raid group when you are zoning in. This sounds more like a problem with AFK detection than grouping. Can they be? Generally, when you buy with a special currency you can only resell for that currency. They would be able to salvage and sell that loot, but we're starting to get farther away from the source with more RNG and time affecting the total earning. Has anyone done any mass salvaging today, to check out the improved item salvage mentioned in the patch notes? | |} ---- Dyes from the dye bags are fully tradeable. | |} ---- Good? Maybe I'll get white dye sometime in the next 40 years. :P | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Not at all. You were completing the quests in the area right? No harm in doing that :) If someone's going to kill the stuff for you, happy days! | |} ---- It could also be gained solo since launch by doing the house plot challenges. | |} ---- ---- I haven't but mainly because I have 150+ modules from arena, I don't consider low level dungeons all that amazing for modules though. 200k Renown on the other hand, in only an hour or so is pretty much obviously not intended when harder content gives you far less reward-wise. It's almost like people want there to be no reason to run dungeons/adventures/shiphands. | |} ---- Is it really 200K an hour? | |} ---- I honestly had no problem with these renown train, until last night when I was attempting to put together a group for an event that used to run regularly, multiple times a day. I could barely scrape together 8 people, and 3 of them were guildmates. Obviously this Renown train is taking people out of the regular rotation of players that would otherwise queue for dungeons/adventures or run the open world events when they came up. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Newsflash, if they'd rather do the renown train, they probably don't want to do the dungeons anyway. After all, its just renown. If you really wanted to fix the issue, you'd drop the absurd price of the amp ability points and the RNG dye bags. | |} ---- YES PLEASE!! I just need SIX more dyes :angry: Well, technically 7, but I don't think I'm going to ever get that Gamescon dye :P | |} ---- You keep saying stuff like this about raiders. Where are you getting this from? Yes we have more renown than the PvP only crowd, which needs to be fixed, but in general before Drop 4 the renown gained through raiding was barely enough to cover the 4-6 flasks of speed used every week. With the reduction in price this isn't as true anymore but it's not like raiders are drowning in renown just from raiding. | |} ---- Have you actually ever raided? because this is not the case. Most of the renown i've obtain was from previously running dungeons. If you only raid you would run out of renown or barely have enough to cover the speed flasks previously. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- And that's OK. You're getting superior gear and raid exclusive drops like the rare flairs not to mention the set tokens with unique loot. If they make raids the best for obtaining everything in the game, we have a problem because the idea is to offer a variety of content for a variety of playstyles with its own rewards. | |} ---- ---- ---- This is true. By my count a veteran shiphand with a gold metal awards something like 2k renown at best. It would take running more than 100+ shiphands to be able to buy ONE unlock, and you need the full 7 to see the actual impact. And it's not like the others are easily available. The only ones you get in a reasonable amount of time are the Path lv30 ones. The rep ones take forever, especially with the zones being ghost towns with nobody to help do the group quests. | |} ---- I maxed out my abilities and amps purely through EG. All the rest is just gravy. | |} ---- That is still a significant time investment, even though its spread across many weeks. The 'grind' to get you character to its maximum potential (outside of gear and personal skill) has always been the leveling process. You hit max level and now its up to you to research how to best play the class and get gear. Sure getting gear is time consuming but its also just a tool. Skill has always been more important than gear. But when it comes to ability and amp points (especially ability points) its a huge restriction that can not be overcome by skill. | |} ---- I think the issue would be more that outside of farming it will take forever, but as part of what at this point is being called "the renown train", it will go very quickly. Most estimates of renown gain that I've seen run at between 70k-200k renown per hour per person. That's about 10 times the best I can do by farming gold medals from Veteran Shiphands. The fact that there even IS an explicit name for this activity suggests that the profits from it are completely out of line with the rest of the game's options for gaining renown. Intended or not, the rewards are driving the behavior. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I will, because as usual this will reward the early adapters of an exploit and divide the market/progression even more between those who exploited early and then those who came later who are now so behind. | |} ---- What? No! Of course not. Oh. Never mind. | |} ---- ---- People are choosing to do what they want to do? What a strange game, where the thing you most want to do is run it AFK but not play it. Huh. As for the "high possibility" that the 2-3 hours you'd take farming renown to earn those ability/amp points could instead just be spent farming enough plat to buy the same points off the AH, I bow to your prowess at farming plat. :D | |} ---- ---- Some people there are afk. Some people are taking turns. Some people are actively killing mobs the entire time. Just because you might see people there afk does not mean everyone is. Some of us are on teamspeak chatting about Wildstar, organizing warplots / raids, theory crafting, etc, and taking turns killing the mobs in the room. This really is a common thing about MMOs. We're just choosing to help each other farm renown for RNG lottery instead of sit around on hoverboards / stupid looking mounts in illium / thayd. | |} ---- Personally, I think anything that brings you out to defend the ability to grind mobs in the open world for dyes might be worth keeping around. Damn casuals. | |} ---- ---- ---- Guess that's that then. I AKF'd one night so I could work on my custom PC case, was pretty awesome, another night I went and killed stuff for hours then went and AFK'd when I need to sleep. Was really nice of everyone to help out. | |} ---- This is exactly why people have been banned previously. It's a form of automated gameplay. | |} ---- No, it's not. Going afk and going to sleep is not automated gameplay. ... but running a script to keep you in-game, is. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Aint that the fricken truth. AND guild influence. They respond to this so quickly it's just like... wat And people call pvp'ers bitter and selfish after these threads :( | |} ---- Yeah that's pretty messed up... | |} ---- ---- I agree that this should be implemented..but the trains were giving far too much renown so needed to be brought inline a bit. Ideally they should have just stuck DR on for raids and upped the renown given from GA/DS to counter balance it if that was a concern but hey ho! | |} ---- ---- ---- And you HONESTLY see no issue with being able to get both an amp AND ability point for two characters in a week? You don't think that's just slightly out of whack?? Seriously... I don't get how anyone can honestly say this wasn't obviously out of balance. Not an exploit, but definitely not in balance. | |} ---- Between PvP, paths, dungeons, and daily zones you are basically covered on AMP/Ability points. I don't know why getting four in one week is absurd when before the drop you could get 9 or so in one day (a really long day), depending on PvP queues and gold dungeon competency. | |} ---- Difference: Gold dungeons and PVP require at least being at the keyboard and playing. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Actually, the majority of the farmers were most likely PvPers, as we receive 0 renown from our preferred aspect of the game. I know that Gatlike Gangstars, for instance, are very far behind on their guild influence because of having to relocate from the dead server to the populated NA server. We had to recreate the guild, something we've worked very hard on. But even still, those of us renown farming, are certainly not doing dungeons / dailies, because we didn't want to do those anyway. I'm currently sitting in my house, waiting for a pvp queue for 15-20 minutes, just like normal. | |} ---- ---- ---- Nice suggestions, but we've been there, and it doesn't actually work like that You see, streaming pvp poses a challenge because you can't observe it unless you're in open world If you're in open world you have different pvpo / pvpd, and a different registry update (your reaction times are considered as quickly) If you're in instanced pvp, well the player has to stream it, since there is no observer mode Also, we do have a raid night. Unfortunately,warplots are generally one-sided, between 1 dom and 1 exile team. This last patch actually broke those, too. PvPers receive 0 renown from PvP. Trust us pal, we've tried to do, and we have done all of those things. IT's those types of things that turn players away from this game, rather than bring them in. Carbine finally put something in place that gave us the opportunity to feel useful and have manageable goals (ability / amp ) points from renown. It's hard enough to obtain them as a PvPer (only 1 ability and 2 amps from prestige), so naturally, they took the ability to group up and gain renown away too. Maybe you don't quite understand, but Carbine hates PvPers. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Like, yeah, we won't miss you, really. | |} ---- ---- ---- that give renown? | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Pssssssst renown trading pssssssssst psssssst!! ;) The problem is solutions need to be made for this sort of behaviour. People wont stop doing it which is lame in itself but no matter what game you play online, someone will try to cheat etc. If it was one capture and hold objective and the people holding got renown while in combat then it would give a reason for them to hold it etc maybe? Would also give a reason for the opposition to attempt to take it rather than just for killing people as that's open to exploit. Likewise taking an objective giving renown...two sets of people will just trade taking it etc. It could take a bit of thinking to crack the ol' nut! I certainly don't see why PvP people shouldn't be receiving renown but it's how it gets implemented that's the awkward part. | |} ---- This is the only reason it was enjoyable? Is the implication that the current pathways are unreasonable, or just exhausted? Is it just the Carbine needs to give us a constant, reasonable, activity to AMP/Ability Point, Costumes, and Dyes? They seem to have been adding these with every drop, but maybe not at a rate fast enough to keep people busy? I'm genuinely asking, because I have no dog in this hunt. I don't care about most of that stuff enough to do any work for it (other than AMP/Ability Points, and I'm only lacking one AMP point) and then renown train didn't bother me (except for the constant spam in LFG) too much. I'm just wondering that if this was beloved by casuals, if there's a way Carbine could take it and make something similar an intended thing in the future. | |} ---- Pssst! Eclips! World PVP! Plug world PVP and an increase in the renown gains for world PVP! Request areas people can go and try to hold a position like Halaa or capture flags or something where they get renown for world PVP, all while they wait on their queues! This is the perfect time! | |} ---- No, World PvP sucks in this game. Like--- it's so broken and unnecessary that I won't even be bothered to flag up. There is no risk, no reward. When you kill someone, they respawn unflagged for a short time, etc. Maybe after PvP is overhauled in general, can we even consider this game to have meaningful world pvp. | |} ---- Yeah, exactly, get them on that! At the very least, it's got to be better than sitting in a train AFK. Push adding renown to PVP and let people organize giant slap-fests daily instead of trains! | |} ---- ----